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There are several ways to skin a cat (ask any dwarf), but following are what I typically see needed from each role in a VM run. Since VM is a RAID and is appropriately scaled up in difficulty, its important that everyone understand their role and show up ready to focus on the single instance. This will mean retraiting and re-gearing for many folks. As we have said before, there is interest in tackling ON-LEVEL raids. But, we need to crawl before we can walk. If we can start taking down the level 60 stuff regularly, we stand a better shot at making progress in the level 65+ stuff ;)

Ask the raid leader of the the given run if you have any questions about that specific run, but otherwise feel free to discuss here.


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Everyone - Healing is every members responsibility. Each person should come prepared with lots of healing and power pots and take them like they are candy. You should also have 10 minute food (critted) that grants ICPR and ICMR. You should have a trail food that grants +55 to your role's best stat. You should also have tokens. Bluntly put... don't be a mooch. Even if you rely on everyone else to pop tokens, you need to have your own stash for if you die and get rezzed in combat. You should also have scrolls. For this fight, I would additionally recommend that you bring +1000 to poison resistance. This instance has a constant acid based poision damage that can be helped with this soup.

Turn off cloaks and Post Processing Effects.

Common damage - I don't think that the differing damage types work the way they did back in SoA. However, that doesn't mean we should go in unprepared. More simply put, there isn't a reason to NOT get beleriand or other types of damage for our weapons. Even my mini mace has a damage scroll applied for when I'm able to stand behind mobs and help with auto-attacks on long fights. You can check out Midnight Raid or Loth rep vendors for scrolls. The loth scroll is very nice, but grindy. The Midnight raid requires 3 but can be earned in 20 minutes. I'd recommend to earn a stack of scrolls so that when you find a new LI, you don't have to worry about acquiring a new scroll when you are ready to get out and start using it.

Finally, everyone is responsible for following directions and knowing the target. Even if a raid assist isn't set, there are at least 3 different ways to get to the correct target quickly.

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Hunter - The hunter is considered a tank in this instance. Your number 1 responsibility will be to hold aggro on a single target. This means you get to trait all red and run in Strength Stance. There is NO CC in this instance, nor is there any poison. I like to ask ranged to also take care of the random danglers since you don't have to move to damage them. Its also nice during the 12 tentacle transition from phase 2 to 3 that you fire off Rain of Arrows and Rain of Thorns into the group to help with the initial DPS.

In phase 3 your responsibilities are to aggro your assigned tentacle, take care of the danglers as quick as possible, and provide intermediate DPS on the groups target if you have the time (Don't burn power here if you have the time to switch to the groups target... you need that for aggro on your target, but auto attack and a few bleeds won't hurt). You must also be aware of what the goals are at each stage as you should NOT defeat your tentacle if it is the one we want to keep alive. Trait for max damage and max threat. High avoidance via evade/parry will help as well. Make sure you have the highest tier and longest lasting Breach Finders.

Tank (guard or warden) - The tank will focus on a single target the entire fight. You should come prepared with shield spikes for non-common damage. Keeping aggro is extremely important. If you lose aggro for only a couple of seconds, it can easily mean a raid wipe. Trait for max threat and mitigation on a single target. Be liberal in the use of your self heal skills and max those if possible. You can help with corruption removal when possible.

Champion - Champs shine in the transition from phase 2 to phase 3. We need big, bad AoEs on the 12 tentacles. We only have about 15 seconds from when they spawn until the watcher and his tentacles spawn. We need those dead, and as much time to get into position and regen as possible. Traiting for DPS including Raging Blade and Deathstorm will help. Once the 12 are finished get back into the mindset of single target DPS. We can't kill one of the tentacles too soon. Its ok to AoE while the goal is to take down a tentacle, but its NOT ok to aoe when the goal is to DPS the watcher while leaving a tentacle up. Knowing the stage and your skills is important. Use self heals often and don't ever, EVER taunt for aggro in this fight. EVER! Make liberal use of ebbing ire toward the tank.

Burglar - There is no CC or poison in this fight. Trait for debuffs and damage. Your job will be to keep the watcher debuffed and disabled. Keep an eye on CJ immunity as we will need lots of CJs. If one target is immune, pop on a different target and call out when as much as possible. Even if its a target we don't want to hurt we will always be going greens and blues on CJs. If there are two burgs, definitely communicate CJs so we can maximize them. Remove corruptions as often as possible and DPS the groups target in between.

Loremaster - There is NO CC, diseases, or wounds in this instance. Traiting should focus on debuffs first and DPS second. Your pet will likely not live very long, so I suggest you NOT waste any traits on your pet. The eagle can be summoned before combat and if it makes it to phase 3 it case be parked and used for the group buff. If your DPS pet makes it to phase 3, you risk wasting valuable time micromanaging him as the targets switch very often and doing too much damage to the wrong target can be very bad. Your job at phase 3 is to debuff. Keep your corruption removal skill off cooldown until 2 or more stack and certainly use it anytime you see 3. Keep all debuffs on a rotation on the watcher. The group should be ok on power via CJs and power pots, but top off power for tank and healers if necessary. You can aid range DPS on danglers as a second priority and tack on occasional DPS to the groups target as a last priority, but make sure you have enough power to keep the debuff rotation going strong. High quality pet food may help your pet last past the first two phases.

Runekeeper - Find out your role before the run. If you are asked to DPS, then keep in mind that this is a very long fight in combat. Power is a premium and even with an LM you will not be at the top of the priority pool. Trait for big damage and low power use. Be ready to put Do Not Fall on the main tank or a healer if they are about to go down. This rez is often overlooked and not used when it could save another classes rez for later in the fight. If you are asked to heal, find out your target. If it is to fellowship heal, be aware that the watcher does big AoE attacks that aren't avoidable. You will need to switch targets quickly. If it is to main tank heal, you will be single target healing, but may be able to help the group healer here and there. Help with Corruptions if time allows.

Mini - Trait for big heals and low power use. Also try and maximize your ballads and anthems. If time allows, cycling through the anthems a few times throughout the fight can make a big difference. Trait for your hope circle. You can plant this in a safe spot for all the healers and ranged to float for the entire fight. Place again if off cooldown and still in the fight. Also trait fellowships heart and Rally. Getting rally down to 10 minutes will make it usable twice in the fight if trouble occurs early. There is no reason to trait ANY reds. There isn't anything to stun or interrupt and your power should be going to NOTHING but heals, anthems, and ballads that help the group. Make use of call to greatness (put it on a cappy or other mini if healing is needed, otherwise think of the tank of champ) and also use Call to the fellowship when a CJ is called out in advance. Call to Greatness is up every 4 minutes... you should use it 3 to 4 times in this instance. It is a very underused skill that can help out ;) Do NOT put call to greatness on a hunter or LM during this fight.

Captain - Be sure to trait for the extra time for Last Stand. You might put 2 traits into LoM for the immediate Mark application. Make sure you have a trait in either your power or morale banner and also that you have a supreme critted banner. Ask in kin if you do not have one. Don't waste any traits on pets as they won't be used in this fight. It is preferred that you have 10% to fellowship morale and the highest bonus to either telling or revealing mark (whichever you will use). Make sure to communicate with the other captain as to who will do what. Ideally the marks should switch between the targets and both marks should be reapplied to each one. IDOME is NOT necessary to increase in duration, simply make sure to reapply when needed. There is no fear to remove in this instance. The primary responsibilites of the Captain are to use In Harms Way and Last Stand on the 12 tentacle transition, and to apply buffs and Debuffs. Remember to replant the banner when it expires. Additionally provide spot healing and help DPS whenever possible.

Off-class - If you are filling the spot of a class that we couldn't get... for instance a tank filling a DPS slot, it is imperative that you trait and fill your role accordingly. In this case you would need to trait for 100% DPS. No threat generation of any kind can be used. I would go as far as to say that you should remove any taunts off of your skill bars as one accidental click can mean a wipe. Also, make sure you have the correct LI's to make this switch. Each class should have a LI for their primary role and one for their secondary. If you are a guard filling in for DPS, you need to make sure your legacies support your new role. The same goes for any and all classes that might be filling a different role.
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Thank you Huck! This is super helpful!!!
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Yes! Very nice and informative Huck!


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Thanks, I'm sure I missed some things, I know little of RK and warden. I'm learning about burg and champ. Any feedback is welcome.

We seem to hop right into phase 3 everytime we step in which is really good, but I think we could own this instance with a little attention to it ;)
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Ok I've only done this instance once before so I have some questions to help me fill in the blanks on some things. I've read the preying mantis guide from the lorebook a few times but still unsure about a few things. Here's a picture that will help me elaborate:


This is from Phase 3 of course
Forum Image

Most of my questions are in regards to the hunter class (small red circles)

1)Ok so the first question I have is why do the hunters have to cross-tank the shaking tentacles? Why can't they tank the ones that on their side? Is it just because it lets them get a better view of the battlefield or is it something else?

2)Why do the hunters stand a little to the side of the rest of the group? I know the shaking tentacles have a melee AOE which is why we tank them but do they have a ranged AOE as well?

3)Do the two big tentacles in phase 2 use the same attacks as phase 3? Any ranged AOE that you know of?




A few other miscellaneous questions about the Watcher:

Does it do any shadow damage?

Is there any time in the fight between the phases when it's out of combat (no hourglass)? I can't remember

How do I know if there's a strangling tentacle on the tank in phase 3 with the watcher's head blocking the view?

What would be a better damage scroll to use beleriand or other type with ancient evil tier 3 (+8 to ancient evil)?


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1. Cross tanking keeps you at ranged distance (I believe the melee damage of the tentacles is worse than their ranged). I've never really stressed this since I've seen many groups successful without doing it, but it sure can't hurt.

2. If you are standing in the group, you have to move to help with danglers. I am not aware of a ranged AoE. Moving to the side also puts you further away from your cross-tanked tentacle. If we can get a mini to trait for the hope circle, we should all fit in the circle with the hunters on the edges.

3. I believe they are the same. Again, I don't believe they have a ranged AoE.


Ideally you want beleriand with + to ancient evil. He is ancient evil but only has average mitigation against beleriand and has Fair mitigation against all other kinds.

Yes I believe he does do shadow damage. I'll double check and report back.

No, once you start combat you are in combat until you loot ;)

The tank needs to call out when being strangled. (or anyone that sees it happen).
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I have yet to run it.,... so when we do go, I would like as much detail as possible. :P


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Well all of this is darn good advice and its good to know the information, read the walk-thrus, watch the youtubes, etc. But theres no substituion for experience on this one and this encounter punishes the group for the weakest link.

I dont know if Huck or anyone mentioned this, but you should also have at least 1.5 gold set aside for repairs. Empty your bags of all non-essentials that can get damaged or its gonna cost ya.

This is one of those encounters that makes you smile big when you win it though Happy


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I would like to point out the importance of leveling your virtues and putting in the time to get the gear. I've been in lots of groups and raids and I inspect the people in the group before we get started. Every time I see peoples virtues at 1/2/3/4/5 (or even rank 10 but useless trait) and some junk gear that was won from some old quest in Moria or bought with skirmish marks at the heavy armor vendor. These are the people I dread seeing when I'm on my Minstrel because I'm using up all my power healing them for NO reason. I know lots of people like to say "it's not the gear, it's how you play blah blah blah!" I swear, if I hear that crap again /SLAP is what you're gonna get. That's NOT the case in VM IMO. It makes me wonder why they ever got rid of radiance armor because now you see the cute little newbs coming out of the wood works. Please please pretty please put in some time fine tuning your character. It's very rewarding for three reasons 1) stats go up 2) the game gets easier so you can multi task like me, one hand on the mouse and the other on the remote switchen channels during the commercials ;P 3) you may actually live long enough to /SLAP the Watcher when he's belly up after a good old fashioned TAME SPANKING!!!

I realize that some people don't have all the time in the world to spend on some of this stuff and if I offended you, I'm sorry sort of twisted

Now get out there and start DEEDING Happy. Just think of all the TP you'll get that you can blow on that /tickle emote you always wanted. I know I cringe just thinking about it. 3 level 65s with rank 10 across the board, there's 80 hours of my life I'll never get back /CRY.
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=] This just saved me from asking alot of questions Thanks =]
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Skull makes a great point. We got to phase 3, we got the rotation, we had a FANTASTIC group that followed directions, and we took him down to half health. I think with luck on our side (which we didn't have) we could have beaten him the other night. If everyone was geared up... we wouldn't need the luck ;)

http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Traits

Find the traits you need to get to 10 on the above link and it will tell you all the options of raising them up.

Everyone also needs a level 60+ LI with relics slotted and points spent in skills.

If your gear has a level on it that doesn't say (60) or higher... that should be replaced as well. GS runs go everyday and it does not take long to get the Moria set. if you are 65, look at helegrod or annunimas for a start. Also, ask for help and one thing most people forget... Say what days and times you can run if you ask for a run ;0
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I wasn't referring to the kin run we did. More just my experience in PUGs. I think we did great and burned the watcher down pretty good on the first attempt. I've been in groups where they couldn't even get past phase 1 due to failure to listen to the raid leader. I think the leader was Dire though soooo no one understands what the @$%! that guy says anyway. I lead a PUG today and we got him on the first try with 2 or 3 deaths and the run maybe took 30 minutes. The group makeup was great and lots of capped virtues on people that were only lvl 60 and it seemed they all had at least the Moria gear on. My repair bill was 94 silver. Most of how I lead the group was from what Huck taught me (you da man Huck). It took me over 10 tries before I got into a group that successfully beat it. So practice practice practice and don't be discouraged if you wipe a few times it's a REALLY fun run.
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I am more than willing to try VM on either of my 65 toons.

Have Sarut(65 RK)
Taffildir(65 Cappy)
Taffinder(65 Guard)

All of the above of decently specced, but as I have never done the watcher, I would need to be told what to do etc...

Have watched some vids, but as stated about, nothing beats experience ;)

Also have to agree regarding traits/virtues/gear for the harder raiding instances... these make a HUGE difference!


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First, thank you everyone for taking the time to get us informed about the VM raid. I have also tried it a few times but without a final win. I've only done it as a mini, so I want to stay with that class if possible just cuz I've already practiced with it.

So, here are my questions:

1. What are the best virtues for my Mini (all are at 10, so I just need to know which ones to put in).

2. Should I be all blue in my class triats, or can some yellows be thrown in and if so, which ones?

3. Before, I've had trouble seeing in the raid, due to lag etc. what can I do to fix that? (this means I tend to get hit by sharks).

4. Any suggestions on where I should locate myself?

Thanks guys for all the help!

Goldie


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Goldpoppy wrote:
First, thank you everyone for taking the time to get us informed about the VM raid. I have also tried it a few times but without a final win. I've only done it as a mini, so I want to stay with that class if possible just cuz I've already practiced with it.

So, here are my questions:

1. What are the best virtues for my Mini (all are at 10, so I just need to know which ones to put in).

2. Should I be all blue in my class triats, or can some yellows be thrown in and if so, which ones?

3. Before, I've had trouble seeing in the raid, due to lag etc. what can I do to fix that? (this means I tend to get hit by sharks).

4. Any suggestions on where I should locate myself?

Thanks guys for all the help!

Goldie


1. You have some flexibility here. (and this will change after RoI). But for now, check your will and fate stats. If they aren't around 600 you might consider traits that buff those stats. If they are around 600, then you might consider defensive traits that will allow you take more damage. Vitality and morale would be a good third priority IMHO.

2. I don't think ALL blue will help. I usually go 4B/3Y. The only definite in this area is NO REDS. There is not a single red trait that will help you or the group in this instance for the mini. 3 yellows is nice for buffing, but you may not have much time to buff in this fight. 5 blues allows the SoS HoT capstone which is how I'm traited now. Power is an issue so make sure you can handle a long fight if you chose dual tales. The watcher does a lot of AoE damage and you can't afford to simply spam your group heal. so buffing has to take a back seat alot in this fight unless we get 2 good captains. (I think we only had 1 last time out). Trait to your strengths, but the only definite is no reds ;) As for legendary, make sure you have rally and FH. For the third, either go with tales, SoS, or the hope circle (do not use the AoE damage/slow legendary trait... again, no use in this fight).

3. Most important - turn off post processing effects. You can also turn off shadows, turn off portraits, etc. If you mouse over the settings under video options most of them will tell you more information and will even say something like "disabling this setting will increase performance". If you typically run at high settings, you might try a global preset on the basic graphics settings page. Start with something 2 options below what you normally run at. Since its a preset, you won't have to go hunting for options. And once the instance is over, you can set them back so the game looks better.

4. Yes! I'll cover this on the run as other leaders may want you somewhere else. But I always have the ranged and healers group up in one location behind the watcher.
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